Weblog
Wednesday, 11 November 2009
-
Are More Evangelicals Becoming Gay-Affirming?
There is a fascinating conversation taking place on Karen K's blog (called "Pursue God") that started with Karen's post entitled "More Evangelicals Becoming Gay Affirming?" in which she mentions that many evangelical leaders are quietly questioning their traditional stance on homosexuality. She references an upcoming symposium at Highlands Church, in Denver, Colorado entitled “The Evangelical Church and Homosexuality,” featuring gay-affirming speakers Justin Lee and Mark Achtemeier. Following her post is a long series of comments and responses by Karen which I have taken the time to read through methodically. I encourage you to do the same, reflecting on Karen's ability to respond with grace and respect to each commenter, even when views and beliefs vary greatly on issues like celibacy, love, God and what it means to be "anti-gay" which is a phrase used by one of her commenters.
In general my own views align with Karen's, while I aspire to have the ability, not to mention the time, to respond as she does so thoroughly, respectfully and patiently with people who either disagree or are uncertain about their own beliefs on this difficult issue.
http://pursuegod.wordpress.com/2009/11/07/more-evangelicals-becoming-gay-affirming/
Peace, Jeff
[Edit 11/12/09: I added my own comment to the dialogue, #67 I think, which is time-stamped at 4:41 a.m. on November 12. Here is what I stated:
I continue to follow this conversation with interest. Where positions and beliefs are thought out rationally and discussed civilly, I think we have much to gain by learning why one thinks and believes as they do. My views have evolved over time by learning to listen and process rather than just digging my feet into the ground.
I do have a question and some comments to toss out to Francene related to the sexual ethics discussion. You posed this question to Karen:
“Do you know that someone, maybe even in your school, or even a close acquaintance or friend, is contemplating suicide because they have been told these things over and over again their entire lives? If your best friend were about to jump off a 20-story building because of these personal claims you advocate, what would you say to that person if you were their last hope? Would you lay down your “life” of your beliefs to save your best friends life, as the Bible would have you do?”
While this is a hypothetical situation, we do know there are very real situations of suicide where a person has felt rejection or depression based on how they have been treated by others. But the question here is whether one should give up their personal beliefs if it would make a difference in that person’s decision to take their own life. Personally I might tell the individual that my beliefs are just one person’s beliefs and that they need to decide for themselves. Anyone is more than able to ignore what I believe, as you are able to ignore what Karen believes and move on. Hypothetically a person contemplating suicide could be struggling with any issue related to the concept of God and sin and challenging their friend to drop their whole belief in God to keep them from jumping off the bridge so they wouldn’t feel guilt in any way. But that would just be one’s person distorted attempt to force another what to believe.
Sexual ethics is something I challenge anyone to think through, gay or straight. What sexual ethics does that teen follow even if he decides to come out as gay? Stay celibate until he marries some day, or engage sexually with one or more boyfriends over the years? If he is a Christian, does he look to the Bible for guidance on sexual ethics. Or if a heterosexual teenager is the one contemplating suicide because he wants to have sex with his girlfriend and he’s been advised to wait until marriage, would you also challenge Karen to give up that belief to bring the teenager down off the bridge, to say that it’s okay to have teenage sex regardless of what the Bible says? Do sexual ethics based on biblical belief have any place in counseling anyone? The idea of advocating celibacy to homosexual people is seen by you as damaging, but would you also see advocating waiting for sex until marriage as damaging to heterosexual teens or young adults? That is a position advocated even by some non-Christians. Would you expect a person to drop that belief because it may be “damaging” to some teenager who is agonizing over wanting to have sex with his girlfriend or feeling guilty that he did?
I am presently in conversation with a gay Christian teenager who is considering entering a sexual relationship with a friend. I’ve told him that I would counsel a heterosexual teen the same way, to not become involved sexually at his age. He can ignore my advice if he wants, but I won’t take responsibility for “damaging” him by advising him to wait. Even if one believes in same-sex marriage, which I support from a civil rights perspective but not within the church, what place do sexual ethics have in same-sex relationships and on what are they based if not the Bible? I base my own sexual ethics in relation to heterosexual relationships on the Bible, which would include remaining celibate (chaste) until marriage. If I did believe homosexual relationships to be acceptable for Christians, I would hold the same position and counsel others accordingly.
Anyone can claim that one’s beliefs are damaging to others. In this case, it seems to really come down to what place the Bible and belief in Christ have in one’s life and in one’s sexual ethics. Either it is true and it matters, or it is not true and it doesn’t matter. But each person ultimately needs to make their own decision and live with it and not place the blame on others.
Sunday, 25 October 2009
-
"What Matters More" by Derek Webb
I just listened to an awesome (presumably controversial) song for the first time: “What Matters More” by Derek Webb. The “Live at Cornerstone” version moved me the most and reminded me why I miss Cornerstone so much. The second version is the original video. If you don’t focus on the one use of strong language to make his point about what matters most to us, it is a very powerful song about overfocusing on an issue like homosexuality when we are not concerned or doing much about other issues as Christians like we should be.
Peace in Christ,
Jeff
Sunday, 11 October 2009
-
Reflection on my identity in Christ on National Coming Out Day
I composed this message as an admin of a private Facebook group . I thought I would also share it here, with some slight modification, for my blog readers.------------Brothers in Christ:
Today is National Coming Out Day. I am not promoting this day as an admin or member of this group, but it is much on my mind as I’ve already seen two former group members and a current member post Facebook status messages recognizing themselves as gay, along with another friend who has attended an Exodus conference in the past. There is a sense of freedom in being able to share this declaration with friends and family, especially when most of us have at one time feared others finding out about our struggle with sexual orientation, especially in the face of prejudice or stigma that many of us have experienced in some form or other in our lives. At one time there was a "National Coming Out of Homosexuality Day” also, to recognize people who seek to be free of homosexual behaviors and seek a way out of the homosexual lifestyle, but that movement promoted by some conservative Christian organizations has apparently died out a few years ago.
I respect my gay friends who see this as a day of bold honesty in their lives, including those who profess to follow Christ, and yet on this day I yearn for all of us as brothers in Christ to focus on our identity in Christ and not let homosexual attractions become the basis of our identity. Our group exists to help us find support, encouragement and accountability in areas of struggle related to the same sex attraction that we experience, and yet we don’t see this as the defining focus of our identity. It is but one area of our lives that we bring to Christ in faith to help us overcome struggle and temptation and to seek Him for His purpose in our lives.
A verse that I hold to closely is 2 Corinthians 5:17: “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!” Help us to be honest to God and with our loved ones as we have the need to find support by sharing our struggles that relate to same sex attraction, but let us find our true identity in Christ. As one brother shared in a current group topic “Identity Crisis”, “We need to stop seeing ourselves through the eyes of any human and see ourselves through the eyes of Christ who died for us. In doing so we will find out who we truly are. For in Christ is truth.”
Be blessed this week, my brothers, and may you boldly claim your identity in Christ and share the good news with others as you have opportunity.
Much love to each of you as my brothers in Christ.
------------Peace in Him,Jeff
Monday, 05 October 2009
-
Gay People Seeking God
My goal this week is to watch this complete video of Pastor Ted Beasley's message on same sex attraction and the church. I can tell it's a powerful video just after watching the first three minutes and from reading the "Pursue God" blog post of Karen K whom I greatly respect in her approach to communicating about homosexuality and Christianity. The first 15 minutes are the pastor's message and the last 30 minutes or so are a panel discussion. As Karen describes it: "These are not testimonies of coming out of wild, drug abusing, promiscuous “lifestyles.” These are just three people pursuing God as they felt led. They admit still having same-sex attraction. The focus is not on changing sexual orientation, but on hearing from God and walking toward Him."
http://www.gatewaychurch.com/media/2009/08/30/letsexpress-same-sex-aug-23-2009/
I've teared up twice when I've started to watch this because I expect it to be powerful and I sense that it is going to leave me dissatisfied with how the church in general and my own church specifically deals with this issue. I plan to take some focused time to watch the complete video in the next day or two, and then I may comment again on here on what impressions it leaves me with. Feel free to do the same after you watch his message.
Peace in Christ,
Jeff
Sunday, 04 October 2009
-
dancing the night away with the love of my life
I had a wonderful night with my wife last night. We went to a wedding in the afternoon and then the reception at 6:00. It was a low-budget reception held in a hall downtown, with fold-up metal chairs set up with four long rows of tables, with a bar off the one end of the hall from which we could immediately smell smoke when we walked in. Not the nicest of places for a wedding reception, but we made the best of it. We knew three couples from our church, and about four other couples from church who we didn't know. The buffet meal was good (I skipped the meat but there were lots of veggies and salad), and the cake. After a while the DJ got some music going, and my wife and I went up and danced after they did the obligatory bride and groom dances. We were the only couple dancing for a few songs, but then people started trickling up and eventually filled the floor. It was so fun and freeing. And then there some slow songs where my wife and I really connected and felt like we were in high school love, only with so many years of love and time together added to it. She whispered to me that she wanted to grow old with me and I think we both teared up.
On the way to the wedding in the afternoon I popped in a tape (yes, a tape) with two songs that were sung at our wedding almost 17 years ago, and that brought a tear to her eyes, too.
I was happy in love yesterday and we had some wonderful time together. Even with all the struggles I've dealt and questioning sometimes, last night was a very strong affirmation that I made the right decision in my life to follow Christ and to marry my wife.
Jeff
Thursday, 01 October 2009
-
Sand Animation - Ukraine's Got Talent
This video is awesome. It gave me shivers and brought tears to my eyes. It's from "Ukraine's Got Talent."
From an article on it: "What she depicts is love and war, set amidst the tu...rmoil of The Great Patriotic War, or as we call it in America, WWII. Ukraine was probably the area most devastated in the war, even more than Germany. It was a conflict that saw nearly one in four Ukrainians killed. A population of almost 42 million lost between 8 and 11 million people, depending on which estimate one references. Ukraine represented almost 20 percent of all the causalities suffered during WWII. And that was after Stalin had killed millions during the manufactured famines before the war. It to this day touches every Ukrainian. That's the context of war memory that Kseniya reaches out to."
Sunday, 27 September 2009
-
Taking a Sabbatical
I'm going to try and take a one-week sabbatical from Xanga and Facebook. I need to get back my focus on some things and have gotten to feel distracted trying to keep up with too much on the Internet. As I contemplated doing that in church this morning, I realized that I had gotten a little distant from worship even.
This song was part of our worship time this morning, and it stayed on my mind as we were coming home, so I thought I would share it here as part of my refocusing on the Lord, on my family and on keeping some balance in my schedule. I plan to get consistent with my daily quiet time and my time at the gym, then after the week start to let other things find their place.
Feel free to leave messages for me on Xanga or Facebook, but I am not planning to respond until next week. I will be praying for you guys as I reflect this week, and I will appreciate any prayers you want to send my way.
Peace in Christ,
Jeff
Saturday, 26 September 2009
-
Gay Students at Christian Colleges - Part 2
In follow-up to my previous post and reference to Karen K's blog post entitled "Gay Students at Christian Colleges", Karen has some extensive comments after that post that deserve a read. Click on to her post to read the comments at the end firsthand, but here are some excerpts that have struck me in particular that she wrote in a response to woman who had expressed her own philophical viewpoints on faith and sexuality:
It actually reminds me of something Tim Keller, pastor of Redeemer Presbyterian Church wrote in an article entitled "Centrality of the Gospel." He writes, "Gospel renewal occurs when we keep from walking 'off-line' either to the right or to the left. The key for thinking out the implication of the gospel is to consider the gospel a 'third' way between two mistaken opposites. However, before we start we must realize that the gospel is not a half-way compromise between the two poles--it does not produce 'something in the middle,' but something different from both."
Where Keller might differ from you is that he sees balance as something more than the middle between two extremes. But an altogether different third way. Specifically, in regards to sexuality, he writes, "The secularist/pragmatist sees sex as merely biological and physical appetite. The moralist tends to see sex as dirty or at least a dangerous impulse that leads constantly to sin. But the gospel shows us that sexuality is to reflect the self-giving of Christ. He gave himself completely without conditions. So we are not to seek intimacy [and then try to] hold back control of our lives. If we give ourselves sexually we are to give ourselves legally, socially, personally--utterly. Sex only is to happen in a totally committed, permanent relationship of marriage."
If sex is primarily about release or attempts to meet personal needs--then balance between two extremes of over-sex or no sex makes sense. However, if sex is not primarily about release or personal needs, but giving up ourselves as Christ gave up himself--and the sexual union between two people is a mystical representation of that, then, we see a different dynamic at work. One that involves sacredness and the centrality of a life-long committed relationship.
On another note, I wonder how suffering fits into the concept of Polarized Thought Processing? You touched on it peripherally. That is, sometimes celibacy is a suffering of sorts that one undertakes for the greater good--thus Gandhi, Dalai Lama, Mother Teresa, etc. I can also think of other instances where celibacy is simply imposed by life circumstances. For example, I know of an elderly woman in Russia who was never able to marry because she had a large red birth mark on her face and no one wanted her. This was not her desire to live a single, celibate life, it was simply the reality that was imposed on her. And having casual sex would have been a completely unwelcome and offensive suggestion to her.
Christian theology has a place for the reality of suffering. That is, sometimes, we choose to persevere through undesirable circumstances for the sake of what is right and good. Celibacy is not the normal state of things. The majority of people all have an innate drive to couple with another person--physically and emotionally, and more than that to share our lives with someone. But there may be circumstances that prevent that. Not because one is living a polarized life, but because one has subjected their sexuality to the authority of Christ. So, I choose celibacy outside of heterosexual marriage, not because I want to be celibate, but because in doing so, I am upholding the sacredness of sex. That is, self-restraint becomes the greater good when sex is not available in its proper context. For more of my thoughts on the value of chastity/celibacy, see my post here: http://pursuegod.wordpress.com/2007/09/30/the-c-word/
And an excerpt in response to a young man’s comments who state that he “identified as gay my whole life and have only dated guys through high school and college. I recently accepted Christ as my Saviour and am in some confusion on what to do,” Karen wrote:
“Who we are is based in Who created us. Our Creator knows who we are because he made us. So, we find our identity by seeking the Creator. In my own life that means all my desires, plans etc are subordinated to Christ. Scripture says, "Seek first his Kingdom." Our life is not primarily about our sexuality. That is an important aspect to be sure. But who we are is more rooted in the reality of being the people of God. Scripture calls us a "kingdom of priests." That is to say, people who are set a part for the sacred purpose of serving God. So, what does it mean for you to serve God? What would it look like for you to find your identity as Servant of God? And what would that mean on a practical level in terms of the decisions you make for your life. By that I don't mean you need to become a pastor. Rather, how do you live for the Big Picture knowing that this life is short and its not primarily about finding self-gratification, but instead diving into this God-mission of making a difference in the world.
I think it starts with knowing who God is, and that can be as simple as setting aside time each day to seek God in prayer and ask him your questions. Journal them. Seek truth in Scripture. Talk to spiritually mature mentors. And over time these things become more clear.
You said you need more information than friends can provide, but I wasn't sure what kind of information per se. If you are looking for fellowship with some guys who are also processing their sexuality and faith, there is a private Facebook group for guys that Jeff S. who posted a comment earlier is a part of. He might be a good person for you to connect with.”
That invitation is open to any other Christian guys reading this who are looking for support, encouragement and accountability in your life as you seek to reconcile same sex attraction with Christian faith. And if you are unsure about your relationship to God, feel free to contact me at carleton1958@gmail.com to dialogue.
Peace in Christ,
Jeff
Sunday, 20 September 2009
-
Gay Students at Christian Colleges
I lived in fear of anyone finding out that I struggled with homosexuality while I was in college. I did come out to two friends for a brief period at the end of my junior year. One of them was from the Christian fellowship group that we both attended, and she was very gay-affirming to me. The other friend was out himself and was very sensitive and compassionate in listening to and supporting me. He invited me to the campus gay and lesbian support group on campus which I attended a couple of times. (I recently got back in touch with him and have had some good exchanges and I even shared my blog address with him.) I fully expected to be out on campus my senior year, but I retreated back into the closet over the summer. I lived in fear my senior year of anyone publicizing what I had shared the previous spring, especially to any of my Christian friends.
With that memory of mine in mind, it is with great appreciation that I read this blog post of Karen K about gay students at Christian colleges. Mine was not a Christian college, but even within the context of a Christian fellowship group, I dared not share my greatest struggle for fear of being stigmatized, shunned or otherwise talked about. I expect some might have been able to support and encourage me, but the general culture did not lead me to feel comfortable sharing with anyone. Even when I had shared in a small group that I struggled with drinking (I am now a recovering alcoholic), I didn’t feel like anyone really wanted to talk with me about it.
I highly recommend this article of Karen K. She has a much needed voice on this issue.
http://pursuegod.wordpress.com/2009/09/19/gay-students-at-christian-colleges/
And when you're done reading her post, continue on with Steve's post entitled "Gay at Wheaton". It is an excellent read.
http://slaggetyslagg.blogspot.com/2009/07/hopefully-well-crafted-sentences.html
Peace in Christ,
Jeff
Wednesday, 09 September 2009
-
Dealing with loneliness
One of my dear Christian brothers from the Accountability Brothers group sent me this message the night before last. He has expressed deep pangs of loneliness before. I'd like to ask any of my blog readers to prayerfully read it and pray for this brother, and then respond with any words of advice, wisdom or encouragement as you feel led. (If you are a member of the AB group, you can either post your response here or there, but you don't need to post it in both.)
"I'm having a hard night tonight. It's 2:30 a.m. and I can’t sleep. After stepping away from video games for awhile, I find myself less distracted, and in their place loneliness has flooded in. I have tried to set more time aside for God, spending time in quiet before Him, yet in these first few days I have felt Him say nothing more than 'wait'. I am acutely aware of my heart’s desire to be loved and very frustrated because my head knows I already am. As I sit here in the night, I am left in a confusing place. Temptations of fantasy and masturbation continue to come at me, offering me the lie that through them I can feel loved. I hate them, yet I can't seem to get away from them without somehow distracting myself. No matter what I do, I also can’t seem to connect the truth from my head to my heart that God already loves me with an overwhelming love. My head gets it and believes it beyond a shadow of a doubt, but my heart can only see the reality of the moment and the feelings... loneliness. I haven't fallen tonight, but if I can’t stop these temptations or get away from them, I fear I may. Every time I turn away from the temptations, my loneliness keeps dragging them back into my face. My prayer is that God would meet my loneliness with His love so I can turn to Him instead of simple distractions to avoid falling into sin. Please pray for me."Your prayers and responses will be much appreciated.
Peace in Christ,
Jeff
- browse entries:
- older »
Top Tags - Weblog
carleton1958
-
- Name: Jeff
- Gender: Male
- Member Since: 9/23/2005
-
True
Connect
About Me
-
I am a work in progress. "He who began a good work in me will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus." Phil 1:6









![New Year[1]](http://xb9.xanga.com/9ca82603c7728172579021/q131105102.jpg)
